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War and Peace and War

Explore War and Peace and War by Peter Turchin: 17 Hacker News mentions from 8 participants in 2007-02-22–2026-11-01. Read original excerpts, compare opinions and save this book.

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War and Peace and War
Peter Turchin
History & Society

War and Peace and War

17 mentions · 8 participants · 5 recommenders

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Ppjmorris
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Llwneal
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Ddkimball
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You might be interested in _War and Peace and War_, a theory of history focusing on social capital as a driving force, and in _The Fourth Turning_ -- which looks at changes over four-generation intervals, and which, written in 1997, made some surprisingly good predictions about the 2000s (the Aughts?). Both of these are in the tradition of Oswald Spengler's _Decline of the West_ and Arnold Toynbee's _A Study of History_; I'd recommend the abridged version of the latter, and I'd observe that if you can make it all the way through either of these you have more stamina than I do...

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Ddkimball
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It's a mangled version of Marvin Harris and Fernand Braudel. I tried to read _Guns, Germs, and Steel_, and gave up in disgust; Jared Diamond is a Green with an axe to grind. In the case of the American Indians, geography and disease did ruin them (or rather, it ruined the North Americans and the Amazonians; Mesoamerica and the old Inca Empire are predominantly Indian to this very day, and the most recent Maya revolt against the Spanish colonists was in 1911); but most of the time -- more or less all of the time, in the Old World -- ecological factors are secondary to cultural ones. Look at the history of rice: it was adopted as the basic grain of Persia before it was adopted as the basic grain of China (and long before Japan), because good Zoroastrian piety inspired the Sassanids (IIRC) to import this miracle grain and thereby ensure the …

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Ddkimball
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I've read the book about this: _War and Peace and War: The Rise and Fall of Empires_, by Peter Turchin. ( http://www.amazon.com/War-Peace-Rise-Fall-Empires/dp/0452288... ) Turchin's model of asabiya is much more developed than the article's, but goes in exactly the same direction. He emphasizes the importance of frontiers and warfare -- the civilizational counterpart to Darwinian selection pressure, and a reminder that there are worse enemies than one's neighbor and higher causes than one's checkbook -- for asabiya development and, thus, the cohesion of societies. All this is borne out with some very impressive styles of measurement; he's the founder of a new discipline called "cliodynamics," taking its approaches from ecological population modeling. On the other hand, before we embrace war as the road to prosperity, we need to remember w…

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